tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post3301592956727434622..comments2023-09-28T08:09:27.958-06:00Comments on flying under the gaydar: historic strides at byu - chapter: honor codedrexhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08140401181617757573noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-31176166086726304602010-12-04T07:26:26.271-07:002010-12-04T07:26:26.271-07:00There in the hallway, John and Alice committed adu...There in the hallway, John and Alice committed adultery like two animals. I sit in a boothsorta hidden and watch everything happening.<br />nipple masturbation stories erotica<br />sex stories post virus free<br />young daughter sex stories<br />young teen sex stories<br />xxx mom stories<br />There in the hallway, John and Alice committed adultery like two animals. I sit in a boothsorta hidden and watch everything happening.young femdom storieshttp://members.multimania.co.uk/carlaamos/real-life-masturbation-stories.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-27846246876914086892010-03-23T02:02:16.536-06:002010-03-23T02:02:16.536-06:00Correctly your article helped me truly much in my ...Correctly your article helped me truly much in my college assignment. Hats afar to you send, will look ahead in behalf of more interdependent articles soon as its united of my choice topic to read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-66955315201346178182010-03-13T13:48:34.098-07:002010-03-13T13:48:34.098-07:00Nice post and this mail helped me alot in my colle...Nice post and this mail helped me alot in my college assignement. Gratefulness you for your information.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-72776313037281462142007-04-19T15:56:00.000-06:002007-04-19T15:56:00.000-06:00Mormon Enigma Wrote: "For someone to believe that...Mormon Enigma Wrote: "For someone to believe that BYU leadership would stoop that low (to investigate gay supporters) seems petty and an insult to BYU leadership."<BR/><BR/>In 00”-01” A support group was on campus and meeting. This group’s sole stated goal was to provide emotional support for those gays that were struggling with their sexuality. The group was not a formal club at BYU. And it did not share the same stated goals as Evergreen and was for both “strugglers” and supporters of those “strugglers.” The club was discovered by HCO and one of the members of that group was approached by HCO and was told to hand over the names of all persons who had ever attended those group meetings. The student was threatened with HCO action to include university suspension. That student then went to a minority law professor for assistance and legal guidance as to how to handle the situation which by then was escalating into an inquest. The law professor interceded on the behalf of the student making objections on speech and assembly grounds as well as several other legal arguments. HCO backed off but the students in question were scared to meet after that and were each individually directed to meet through Evergreen if they had homosexual inclinations, and were told to steer clear of activity if they didn’t have them. The Law Professor in question related the incident to me in 2003. <BR/><BR/>Does HCO conduct witch hunts. YES they do. There is no question about that. Have those Witch hunts been over seen, ordered by, or even sanctioned by seniour officials in the ASB. That is indisputable given intel provided by individuals who have worked in those offices over the years. As early as the last administration the president’s office was active in “rooting out” gays at BYU. The questions to date, are to what lengths to will HCO go in order to “root out” gays @ BYU. Have they broken the law at all? And what impact is it having on BYU’s statistically significant, larger than average, gay population.JamesOrd@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16009075542478284423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-58305143494330860472007-04-13T12:08:00.000-06:002007-04-13T12:08:00.000-06:00I also am glad that the administration has taken a...I also am glad that the administration has taken a step forward.<BR/>I wouldn't go so far as to say that BYU sets the standard for the other institutions necessarily though. I went to BYU-I and they are adamant that they are a different school with a different honor code. I've even heard them subscribe to the thought that the reason why BYU-I has a more strict honor code is because they live a "higher law" that is uninforcable at BYU. I guess that comment is of little value though.<BR/><BR/>I can't help but agree with ME a little bit. While clarification is indeed important, vital, it still makes it difficult for gay students to feel comfortable on campus. At least that has been my experience. It's easy to feel like an unwelcome stranger with a big secret. That however may have more to do with the church and church culture rather than the school itself. Am I making sense? This isn't mean to be an attack on the Church or the school. I guess I should just be glad that in some ways, outreach is beginning and be concerned with what is and not what isn't.<BR/><BR/>I guess what I am saying is that when you say:<BR/><BR/>"You have to understand how pervasive the oppressive atmosphere here can be sometimes. Especially for people in the closet. "<BR/><BR/>I am inclined to believe that the atmosphere won't change a bit based on what has happened with the honor code. And isn't it the atmosphere change that we want more than anything else? And like you said, you weren't going for a policy change, just a clarification. My honest question is, what would it take to change the atmosphere?<BR/>Anyway, I hope I'm not down playing the good that has taken place because I give props to all of you and I would have joined you in a heatbeat. Seriously it's a wonderful step in the right direction and the fact that they are opening up dialoge with you is great too. Even more so that they are willing to meet again. It's really teriffic.<BR/>-CasDistinguishing Preoccupationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03595180957813663545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-38636662934856894872007-04-12T22:27:00.000-06:002007-04-12T22:27:00.000-06:00I have defended the concept, but never advocated i...I have defended the concept, but never advocated it really.pinetreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06536621216802367938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-10201876509108662622007-04-12T19:21:00.000-06:002007-04-12T19:21:00.000-06:00Congratulations on the wonderful achievement... yo...Congratulations on the wonderful achievement... you and everyone else who worked on this should be lauded.Silus Grokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10934750518150584644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-84626033366106844752007-04-12T17:38:00.000-06:002007-04-12T17:38:00.000-06:00[grumble grumble]I can’t help but feel thrilled th...[grumble grumble]<BR/>I can’t help but feel thrilled that I was wrong here. Ecstatic, to put it mildly. However, I’m still not a fan of secret meetings.<BR/><BR/>Also, anyone here ever defended the concept of gay relationships?<BR/>“Advocacy includes…promoting homosexual relations as being morally acceptable.”playasinmarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998841658611428960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-1167367241935380072007-04-12T12:52:00.000-06:002007-04-12T12:52:00.000-06:00Precisely. For me, at least, there was a very Gest...Precisely. For me, at least, there was a very Gestapo-esque pervasive atmosphere. Especially while soulforce was around, I was extremely nervous about almost everything. The wording was so incredibly vague that it could be used for just about anything. And big brother was watching... Paranoid, I know, but when you think you're alone, you're inclined toward paranoia.Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01234050525776274442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-24562204738454631122007-04-12T12:16:00.000-06:002007-04-12T12:16:00.000-06:00You have to understand how pervasive the oppressiv...You have to understand how pervasive the oppressive atmosphere here can be sometimes. Especially for people in the closet. For me it was never that bad, because my personality lends itself to me feeling invincible because I feel like my perspective is right, but for anyone with insecurities about it they think anything can get them in trouble.<BR/><BR/>There's also the issue that with such vague wording, the clause could plausibly be used as an excuse for action if nothing more glaring was committed but they want to impose restrictions or take action. And some people got in trouble with the honor code office for things they never did, and were never able to completely clear their names (Ty, for one, as cited in his book). The clarification gives them less room to prosecute based on unfounded claims.drexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08140401181617757573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-55467786797041752002007-04-12T11:31:00.000-06:002007-04-12T11:31:00.000-06:00...or that they could be under suspicion for being...<I>...or that they could be under suspicion for being friend with a gay kid and trying to support him or her</I><BR/><BR/>I'm flabbergasted that anyone would think that - even with the old wording. For someone to believe that BYU leadership would stoop that low seems petty and an insult to BYU leadership. <BR/><BR/>If there is anyone at BYU who thinks befriending a gay person is akin to supporting homosexual behavior then they are the ones who should be kicked out of BYU. And then they should be tarred and feathered (or, since we're the gay guys, covered with honey and feather boa's)<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, it makes me sad to think that there probably are closed minded people like that in the church and at BYU. But, if I ever meet one of them ... (sorry, I guess you hit a nerve)Abelard Enigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166049686152203530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-37837633887874344882007-04-12T11:28:00.000-06:002007-04-12T11:28:00.000-06:00"BYU-Provo sets the standard for the 3 other CES i..."BYU-Provo sets the standard for the 3 other CES institutions (BYU-Idaho, BYU-Hawaii, LDS Business College), and the administration (and we) are hoping that the changes will be adapted directly to the other institutions"<BR/><BR/>Soulfource will be coming to BYU-I on Monday and Tuesday, perhaps this can happen here too soon.Malloryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08181102572924557629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-13255310846145897922007-04-11T21:50:00.000-06:002007-04-11T21:50:00.000-06:00Yeah, we're pretty stoked about the implications (...Yeah, we're pretty stoked about the implications (and understanding), not to mention the reverberations this can potentially have. BYU-Provo sets the standard for the 3 other CES institutions (BYU-Idaho, BYU-Hawaii, LDS Business College), and the administration (and we) are hoping that the changes will be adapted directly to the other institutions. That means the changes made this week may directly influence upwards of 50,000 people, and with turnover will continue to influence thousands of new students as they come in.<BR/><BR/>M.E.: We weren't trying to change the policy, really - we were trying to get a fair clarification of what was there. Many people thought they couldn't talk about their struggles with friends, that they'd be suspended for meeting with Soulforce in a private home, or that they could be under suspicion for being friend with a gay kid and trying to support him or her. That could be implying supporting homosexual behavior, sexual or nonsexual, after all. The clarification makes provision for feelings and orientation while still drawing a moral line against behavior. I haven't personally decided where I stand on the whole holding hands bit, but I'm okay with the university being against it.<BR/><BR/>PS playa: I'd almost forgotten how dead-set you'd been against the secret meetings behind closed doors. Have a bit more faith in what's going on now? ^_^ Seriously, though, I'm so impressed with how open they are and how much they want to improve the situation for us. It seriously gives me warm and fuzzy feelings all over.drexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08140401181617757573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-86796457404095517032007-04-11T21:04:00.000-06:002007-04-11T21:04:00.000-06:00Homosexual behavior includes ... all forms of phys...<I>Homosexual behavior includes ... all forms of physical intimacy that give expression to homosexual feelings.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not exactly sure what this means. Are they saying that anything two guys (or two girls) do that might suggest they have feelings for one another (hugging, holding hands, kissing, etc.) could be grounds for being kicked out of BYU? <BR/><BR/>I agree that the new wording is an improvement over the old wording. The fact that they were even willing to sit down and discuss it is huge (in my view). But, what has really been gained here?<BR/><BR/>So, you can be a homosexual (orientation) as long as you don't do anything in front of other people that might suggest you are a homosexual (behavior). Sounds to me like more of a "don't ask - don't tell" policy with an added "don't do" clause.<BR/><BR/>But, I'm not a BYU alumni. So, perhaps there is more here than I realize.Abelard Enigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166049686152203530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-15060413783191630372007-04-11T20:40:00.000-06:002007-04-11T20:40:00.000-06:00Not only can this event not be down-played but it ...Not only can this event <I>not be down-played</I> but it can't be trumpeted loud enough!<BR/><BR/>From a loose interpretation of the old wording, one could imply that it was okay to be gay.<BR/><BR/>The new wording makes it clear that not only is it okay but separates <B>feelings</B> from <B>orientation</B>.<BR/><BR/>Does that mean the Y has officially recognized homosexuality as intrinsic or unchanging in nature?<BR/><BR/>That's <B>HUGE!!!</B>playasinmarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05998841658611428960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-77822318563028073332007-04-11T19:17:00.000-06:002007-04-11T19:17:00.000-06:00Thanks for writing all of this down, Drex. You're...Thanks for writing all of this down, Drex. You're a stud.pinetreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06536621216802367938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-46989915554723063492007-04-11T17:48:00.000-06:002007-04-11T17:48:00.000-06:00Oh, geez. I'm getting all choked up. Okay, not r...Oh, geez. I'm getting all choked up. Okay, not really, but you guys rock.<BR/><BR/>“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, concerned citizens<BR/>can change the world. Indeed it’s the only thing that ever has.” Margaret Mead. <BR/><BR/>:-)-L-https://www.blogger.com/profile/02854867259876731599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-45549962515392750272007-04-11T16:09:00.000-06:002007-04-11T16:09:00.000-06:00Excitement like I can't even express. I'll be smil...Excitement like I can't even express. I'll be smiling for the rest of the week.Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01234050525776274442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-86548865966214224712007-04-11T14:14:00.000-06:002007-04-11T14:14:00.000-06:00This is good news. One of the reasons I left BYU ...This is good news. One of the reasons I left BYU was because of their ambiguously worded policy against homosexual behavior and advocacy. I determined that if I could get kicked out of school for hugging or holding hands with another boy on- or off-campus, it wasn't worth it to me to stay in a place where I would have to worry about who saw what I was doing--if and when I was going to mess up. It looks like that's still the case.<BR/><BR/>Also, I have the original text if you want it, <A HREF="http://www.pmeo.org/foxx/?p=53" REL="nofollow">here</A>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2988935280992028565.post-80483144952410088322007-04-11T13:49:00.000-06:002007-04-11T13:49:00.000-06:00Congratulations are in order for small step!Congratulations are in order for small step!Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06159223254071653666noreply@blogger.com